Jeeps aren't that bad

[2nd 392]

Toyota products from 2005 to now. Valley pan/heat exchanger on V8s. Replacing cracked direct injector during removal. ABS pump failures over the years.

About $2500 quoted to replace the POS buried under the intake manifold. (check engine light). The fuel pump was expensive too. Output shaft leaking, CV boots throwing grease, sway bar links blown, check engine and other warning lights when it rains, they go out when it dries, can’t stop the (not wanted) sunroof from leaking, rear door mechanism shot, overdue 200K mi timing belt/water pump, only gets ~ 2mpg better than the 392..… good and reliable for 200K mi but has since started self destructing….. Eulogy under consideration.

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[JesseT]

Why do you say this?
Seriously, I'm just curious..

CR has shown themselves to be outright hostile to off-road vehicles over the years. You should look into their history with the Suzuki Samurai. They changed the way they did their testing *specifically* to get it to roll because that's what they were trying to prove (even though they couldn't actually get it to roll during their standard test). They ultimately settled a lawsuit but that didn't get even 10% of the coverage of the initial bad press. They practically single-handedly killed the compact SUV segment. They judge off-road focused vehicles harshly for not being optimized for on-road use, but then don't have a category for the things off-road focused vehicles excel at.

 

[Bayrat]

CR has shown themselves to be outright hostile to off-road vehicles over the years. You should look into their history with the Suzuki Samurai. They changed the way they did their testing *specifically* to get it to roll because that's what they were trying to prove (even though they couldn't actually get it to roll during their standard test). They ultimately settled a lawsuit but that didn't get even 10% of the coverage of the initial bad press. They practically single-handedly killed the compact SUV segment. They judge off-road focused vehicles harshly for not being optimized for on-road use, but then don't have a category for the things off-road focused vehicles excel at.

This is how these things get promoted, and the courts tend to lean on the scales as well. For years CU has trashed on Jeeps.

 

[MayThe4x4BWU]

An interesting way for Elon to market Tesla sales since they've been slumping the past few quarters.

But then, he still wants his big fat "CEO performance" bonus, so CEO's gotta do what he's gotta do...

 

[Tncdrew]

CR has shown themselves to be outright hostile to off-road vehicles over the years. You should look into their history with the Suzuki Samurai. They changed the way they did their testing *specifically* to get it to roll because that's what they were trying to prove (even though they couldn't actually get it to roll during their standard test). They ultimately settled a lawsuit but that didn't get even 10% of the coverage of the initial bad press. They practically single-handedly killed the compact SUV segment. They judge off-road focused vehicles harshly for not being optimized for on-road use, but then don't have a category for the things off-road focused vehicles excel at.

Yeah... I definitely remember the Samurai saga

 

[Spartan99]

Sometimes variants of a shared platform will get different scores. Fascinating actually. Two identical cars, but with different badges, getting different consumer scores.

 

[TheRaven]

For starters out of warranty battery replacement is as rare as engine replacement, also a somewhat diminished battery range does not even mean a battery replacement is required because people can still use the vehicle within it's reduced range.

LOL no it's not. If you plan to keep your EV for the long haul you will be replacing a battery. I have no doubt you can cite examples of EVs that have gone 200k on their original battery but those are exceptions...for each one I can also cite EVs that didn't make it 40k. Furthermore, those 200k mile EVs are working with significantly reduced range...and when you start out with a barely 300mi range with the windows up and HVAC off, that reduced range hurts a lot.

Max battery range only matters for high mileage drivers, and those people probably shouldn't be driving an EV in the first place.

Range matters to everyone. Just like gas tank size. We're still dealing with EVs that can barely manage a 200-mile range when used like a real vehicle in real conditions. When a huge chunk of the populace has 50-80mi daily commutes and no garage or driveway to charge in, range is a HUGE deal. Pretty much any modern ICE-powered vehicle can provide a TRUE 300mi/tank range, which means re-fueling once a week (I.E. 3 minutes at a gas station). Until there are affordable EVs that can offer the same experience, EVs are going to remain niche products.

The above are just a few examples of the myriad reasons why the idea of an all-EV America in our lifetimes is a daydream. That's not even getting into the current environmental impact...which is why it's a really good thing that the transition to EVs is going to take a long time. Perhaps by the time it's actually possible, we'll have sufficient tech to make EVs a net environmental win.

 

[BXFXJeep]

LOL no it's not. If you plan to keep your EV for the long haul you will be replacing a battery. I have no doubt you can cite examples of EVs that have gone 200k on their original battery but those are exceptions...for each one I can also cite EVs that didn't make it 40k. Furthermore, those 200k mile EVs are working with significantly reduced range...and when you start out with a barely 300mi range with the windows up and HVAC off, that reduced range hurts a lot.



Range matters to everyone. Just like gas tank size. We're still dealing with EVs that can barely manage a 200-mile range when used like a real vehicle in real conditions. When a huge chunk of the populace has 50-80mi daily commutes and no garage or driveway to charge in, range is a HUGE deal. Pretty much any modern ICE-powered vehicle can provide a TRUE 300mi/tank range, which means re-fueling once a week (I.E. 3 minutes at a gas station). Until there are affordable EVs that can offer the same experience, EVs are going to remain niche products.

The above are just a few examples of the myriad reasons why the idea of an all-EV America in our lifetimes is a daydream. That's not even getting into the current environmental impact...which is why it's a really good thing that the transition to EVs is going to take a long time. Perhaps by the time it's actually possible, we'll have sufficient tech to make EVs a net environmental win.

I never said anything about an all EV America, I'm also not of the camp an EV is for everyone, I'm actually completely against an all EV, ban ICE, I'm simply addressing the battery replacement is commonplace.

The vast majority of Teslas are blowing well past 40k.

Range only matters for people that are constantly blowing through the range, which are people that should not be driving an EV.

For people that do less than 60 miles a day, and have a 120 outlet, they have zero issue, people touching 100 miles can get a level two, it's that simple. Plugging in every day at home is far more simpler than running to a gas station every week, I used to do that, I don't even have a home charger, I plug my 4xe at close by chargers and walk home 5 minutes away.

Again if you do long distance regularly, or is constantly blowing through a tank of gas an EV is not suited for that, but some people make it work.

I also can care less about the chatter about environmental impact, we all know everyone lies about it, even the people that claim EVs are best for the planet have been dropping bombs daily all over the planet, for the last few decades.

 

[TheRaven]

I never said anything about an all EV America, I'm also not of the camp an EV is for everyone, I'm actually completely against an all EV, ban ICE, I'm simply addressing the battery replacement is commonplace.

The vast majority of Teslas are blowing well past 40k.

Range only matters for people that are constantly blowing through the range, which are people that should not be driving an EV.

Agreed on all this...however on that last point - that's A LOT of people.

Plugging in every day at home is far more simpler than running to a gas station every week, I used to do that, I don't even have a home charger, I plug my 4xe at close by chargers and walk home 5 minutes away.

Certainly...but remember that the vast majority of American drivers do not have a garage or even a driveway, and incredibly few are within walking distance of a charging station.

I also can care less about the chatter about environmental impact, we all know everyone lies about it, even the people that claim EVs are best for the planet have been dropping bombs daily all over the planet, for the last few decades.

Agreed. The problem is that EVs are being pushed as a "solution" to climate change when they are nowhere near that right now. The only "weapon" we have right now is consuming less, yet every single voice across the spectrum on climate change is telling us to consume more.

 

[CptFloridaMan]

They need to add a column “lifetime cost of mods”. That would drive Jeep to the bottom of the list!

I made the mistake of putting everything in a spreadsheet, it was probably better to not think about beforehand though.

 

[Traveller128]

CR takes great liberties with it's "not for profit" status...despite outwardly claiming to be a neutral ratings organization they very much DO accept contributions from automakers and affiliates.

And also the fact that they have no idea how to properly evaluate automobiles. CR is an appliance rating organization and automobiles are not appliances.

And they want you to pay for their service, while they collect contributions from the companies they review. And the last 30 years I have personally witnessed them make high recommendations for things that were flawed. Meaning money probably changed hands at some point.

My wife used to read their reviews, and figured out in only a few months that they were biased because she bought some of the recommended items, only to realize they were complete crap.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Agreed on all this...however on that last point - that's A LOT of people.



Certainly...but remember that the vast majority of American drivers do not have a garage or even a driveway, and incredibly few are within walking distance of a charging station.



Agreed. The problem is that EVs are being pushed as a "solution" to climate change when they are nowhere near that right now. The only "weapon" we have right now is consuming less, yet every single voice across the spectrum on climate change is telling us to consume more.

The good thing is as much as they push EVs Americans especially are overwhelmingly rejecting EVs and not buying them, which is a good thing, if Americans don't buy in, means mass EV adoption is dead.

Notice car manufacturers like Toyota and Honda are more HEV vs plugin or BEVs

 

[TheRaven]

Notice car manufacturers like Toyota and Honda are more HEV vs plugin or BEVs

HEV and PHEV is where everyone is going now. It's where we SHOULD have gone, starting 2015-ish. We'd all be a lot better off right now...but battery makers wanted full-EVs so they lobbied and the government tried to force us into BEVs before anyone (or the country for that matter) was anywhere near ready. So now we're wasting precious time and resources backtracking.

I still maintain that electromotive drivetrains (similar to diesel-electric but gas) are the solution for our lifetimes. It's fascinating to me that we don't have them yet...but again, I think that if the green lobby hadn't interfered that's where we'd be right now. We can get the entire population on a mix of EMs and EVs while we build out the grid and charging infrastructure for all-electric...maybe being mostly there by the end of this century.

 

[BXFXJeep]

[

HEV and PHEV is where everyone is going now. It's where we SHOULD have gone, starting 2015-ish. We'd all be a lot better off right now...but battery makers wanted full-EVs so they lobbied and the government tried to force us into BEVs before anyone (or the country for that matter) was anywhere near ready. So now we're wasting precious time and resources backtracking.

I still maintain that electromotive drivetrains (similar to diesel-electric but gas) are the solution for our lifetimes. It's fascinating to me that we don't have them yet...but again, I think that if the green lobby hadn't interfered that's where we'd be right now. We can get the entire population on a mix of EMs and EVs while we build out the grid and charging infrastructure for all-electric...maybe being mostly there by the end of this century.

There is still a huge space for the less complicated BEV, but it's definitely not for mass adoption.

PHEVs are also unsuitable for mass adoption, HEVs are great, I personally would not buy a HEV.

I'm more PHEV because of the Wrangler, I would not buy a non Wrangler PHEV, I probably would not even buy a PHEV Wrangler in the future, hopefully my 4xe gives me another 7-8 years, after that I would get a BEV of some sort.

There is a marketplace for all these drivetrains, they all have specific use.

 

[Jtphoto]

Here is an eye opener…
I just completed a 1990mile trip from home to Tucson AZ .. Out of curiosity I wanted to keep track of the number of off road SUVs I past along the way.
To my surprise only 12 full size Broncos spotted, for reference my daughter spotted 15 Jeep Wagoneers.
I lost track of the Wranglers and Gladiators after the first couple hours well over 40 Wranglers (mostly JLs) and over 20 Gladiators and that scenario just kept going for the full 35ish hour drive. Surprisingly I spotted at least 10 Land Rovers in that time and about 25 Toyota 4Runners.
I thought for sure once I got into Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona there would be more Broncos, but that was not the case.
I didn’t count the Bronco Sports but there were quite a few of those.

I’ll keep track again on the way back home next week and report back.

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